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	<title>Comments on: California Gives Thumbs-Up to Gay Marriage</title>
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	<link>http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/california-gives-thumbs-up-to-gay-marriage/</link>
	<description>Just some GW Law students getting their blog on</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 06 Oct 2008 13:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Navah</title>
		<link>http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/california-gives-thumbs-up-to-gay-marriage/#comment-537</link>
		<dc:creator>Navah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 18:09:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/?p=147#comment-537</guid>
		<description>I haven't read all 172 pages yet, but for the most part my fascination is based on what Fish was talking about. This is not a decision about rights obtained through marriage, but actually about the term marriage itself.  I'm impressed with the court's approach particularly because this seems to be such an age divided issue.  Young Americans overwhelmingly believe that gay partnerships should have equal rights and that a same sex partnership should have the same name as a hetero partnership.  Older Americans, even many socially liberal ones want equal rights but not the same name.

I find it baffling to talk to older people about this, especially because they come from the 50% divorce generation.  The idea that equal rights are ok, but that the name marriage is somehow unfit for gay couples is baffling to me in a country where state ordained marriage is not at all religiously affiliated.  It is time for all states to get out of the business of judging which two consenting adults can marry.  It would be one thing if states decided to issue partnership licenses to everyone and as Fish recommended get out of the marriage business altogether.  But the system that exists now in most states is in my opinion, in violation of equal protection.  I think the Court's decision was the correct one, that qualifications based on sexual orientation are suspect and as Treyer said, determining whether a law complies with the state Constitution is the Court's job, not bowing to public opinion or votes.  

And in response to Adam's point, California voters will likely have a chance to amend their constitution during the next election to make marriage constitutionally defined as between a man and a woman.  I'm crossing my fingers that it fails.

If anyone is looking for a super quick summary of the Court's reasoning, and doesn't want to sift through 172 pages, the paragraph that starts on page 11 gives the four main reasons for the court's decision.  It reads like a great advocacy piece for equal marriage rights.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t read all 172 pages yet, but for the most part my fascination is based on what Fish was talking about. This is not a decision about rights obtained through marriage, but actually about the term marriage itself.  I&#8217;m impressed with the court&#8217;s approach particularly because this seems to be such an age divided issue.  Young Americans overwhelmingly believe that gay partnerships should have equal rights and that a same sex partnership should have the same name as a hetero partnership.  Older Americans, even many socially liberal ones want equal rights but not the same name.</p>
<p>I find it baffling to talk to older people about this, especially because they come from the 50% divorce generation.  The idea that equal rights are ok, but that the name marriage is somehow unfit for gay couples is baffling to me in a country where state ordained marriage is not at all religiously affiliated.  It is time for all states to get out of the business of judging which two consenting adults can marry.  It would be one thing if states decided to issue partnership licenses to everyone and as Fish recommended get out of the marriage business altogether.  But the system that exists now in most states is in my opinion, in violation of equal protection.  I think the Court&#8217;s decision was the correct one, that qualifications based on sexual orientation are suspect and as Treyer said, determining whether a law complies with the state Constitution is the Court&#8217;s job, not bowing to public opinion or votes.  </p>
<p>And in response to Adam&#8217;s point, California voters will likely have a chance to amend their constitution during the next election to make marriage constitutionally defined as between a man and a woman.  I&#8217;m crossing my fingers that it fails.</p>
<p>If anyone is looking for a super quick summary of the Court&#8217;s reasoning, and doesn&#8217;t want to sift through 172 pages, the paragraph that starts on page 11 gives the four main reasons for the court&#8217;s decision.  It reads like a great advocacy piece for equal marriage rights.</p>
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		<title>By: Treyer Mason-Gale</title>
		<link>http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/california-gives-thumbs-up-to-gay-marriage/#comment-528</link>
		<dc:creator>Treyer Mason-Gale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 18:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/?p=147#comment-528</guid>
		<description>Adam, I am not troubled by the court overturning a voter referendum (Prop. 22) because the court was doing it's job, making sure the laws do not violate the constitution.  If the people disagree, they can amend the state constitution, but a referendum is just a law and laws can't be contradictory to the constitution no matter what percentage of the people (61% in the case of Prop. 22) approve the measure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam, I am not troubled by the court overturning a voter referendum (Prop. 22) because the court was doing it&#8217;s job, making sure the laws do not violate the constitution.  If the people disagree, they can amend the state constitution, but a referendum is just a law and laws can&#8217;t be contradictory to the constitution no matter what percentage of the people (61% in the case of Prop. 22) approve the measure.</p>
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		<title>By: Hamilton Fish</title>
		<link>http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/california-gives-thumbs-up-to-gay-marriage/#comment-527</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamilton Fish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 16:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/?p=147#comment-527</guid>
		<description>I haven't had a chance to read the whole opinion yet (it really IS 172 pages long!) but the thing that struck me so far is the nature of the question that the Court decided.  I hadn't been following the specifics of the litigation at all, so I wasn't aware that essentially, the whole issue is over the word 'marriage.' 

Under California's statutory scheme for domestic partnerships, same-sex couples are afforded nearly all of the same rights and privileges as opposite-sex couples who are married.  (They might be identical, but I don't have the opinion in front of me to double check).  The issue that the plaintiffs in the case were arguing was whether California's refusal to call the same-sex arrangements a marriage was constitutional. 

I think that is interesting because it moves California in a direction that has not been gaining much traction across the country over the issue of same-sex marriage: deinstitutionalizing marriage from the powers of the state.  This is pretty significant.  To me, the label of marriage is a religious or personal label.  People usually get married in a church, or by a minister, or some other religious figure.  However, for the purposes of the state, a marriage like that is not sufficient - you need to have marriage papers filled out so that you can officially be 'married' by the government.  That arrangement weakens the church/state divide.  Why does the government need to call the administrative papers it handles a 'marriage'?  Let the government be in the business of 'civil unions' and let personal convictions determine how you are to be 'married.'  California's decision, requiring all 'civil unions' to be called 'marriages', leaves the state one step away from getting out of the marriage business altogether.   If opposition to same-sex unions is about the government's legitimizing homosexuality by allowing gays to marry, then the state should stop marrying homosexual and heterosexual spouses completely, and just engage in civil unions.  As is stands in California already, couples that are civilly wed or married by the state are equal before the government's eyes.  Thus, the only difference would be that the government would not have the power to 'marry' a couple.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I haven&#8217;t had a chance to read the whole opinion yet (it really IS 172 pages long!) but the thing that struck me so far is the nature of the question that the Court decided.  I hadn&#8217;t been following the specifics of the litigation at all, so I wasn&#8217;t aware that essentially, the whole issue is over the word &#8216;marriage.&#8217; </p>
<p>Under California&#8217;s statutory scheme for domestic partnerships, same-sex couples are afforded nearly all of the same rights and privileges as opposite-sex couples who are married.  (They might be identical, but I don&#8217;t have the opinion in front of me to double check).  The issue that the plaintiffs in the case were arguing was whether California&#8217;s refusal to call the same-sex arrangements a marriage was constitutional. </p>
<p>I think that is interesting because it moves California in a direction that has not been gaining much traction across the country over the issue of same-sex marriage: deinstitutionalizing marriage from the powers of the state.  This is pretty significant.  To me, the label of marriage is a religious or personal label.  People usually get married in a church, or by a minister, or some other religious figure.  However, for the purposes of the state, a marriage like that is not sufficient - you need to have marriage papers filled out so that you can officially be &#8216;married&#8217; by the government.  That arrangement weakens the church/state divide.  Why does the government need to call the administrative papers it handles a &#8216;marriage&#8217;?  Let the government be in the business of &#8216;civil unions&#8217; and let personal convictions determine how you are to be &#8216;married.&#8217;  California&#8217;s decision, requiring all &#8216;civil unions&#8217; to be called &#8216;marriages&#8217;, leaves the state one step away from getting out of the marriage business altogether.   If opposition to same-sex unions is about the government&#8217;s legitimizing homosexuality by allowing gays to marry, then the state should stop marrying homosexual and heterosexual spouses completely, and just engage in civil unions.  As is stands in California already, couples that are civilly wed or married by the state are equal before the government&#8217;s eyes.  Thus, the only difference would be that the government would not have the power to &#8216;marry&#8217; a couple.</p>
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		<title>By: Hamilton Fish</title>
		<link>http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/california-gives-thumbs-up-to-gay-marriage/#comment-523</link>
		<dc:creator>Hamilton Fish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 20:45:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I just printed out the opinion and hope to read it tonight.  I hope to deliver my cutting-edge analysis as soon as I can.  And by cutting-edge analysis, I mean my uneducated pontification.  And of course, by that I mean I'll discuss as per Sai's request.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just printed out the opinion and hope to read it tonight.  I hope to deliver my cutting-edge analysis as soon as I can.  And by cutting-edge analysis, I mean my uneducated pontification.  And of course, by that I mean I&#8217;ll discuss as per Sai&#8217;s request.</p>
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		<title>By: Adam Alba</title>
		<link>http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/2008/05/15/california-gives-thumbs-up-to-gay-marriage/#comment-522</link>
		<dc:creator>Adam Alba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 May 2008 19:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://gwlawstudents.wordpress.com/?p=147#comment-522</guid>
		<description>I've only glanced at the opinion so I don't want to comment on the merits of the court's arguments.  While I think "activist" might be a strong word to use here, I do think it's interesting that the court was willing to overturn the results of a voter referendum passed only 8 years ago that limited marriage to opposite-sex couples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve only glanced at the opinion so I don&#8217;t want to comment on the merits of the court&#8217;s arguments.  While I think &#8220;activist&#8221; might be a strong word to use here, I do think it&#8217;s interesting that the court was willing to overturn the results of a voter referendum passed only 8 years ago that limited marriage to opposite-sex couples.</p>
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